2025-11-13 21:31:58
Grant Lee is the co-founder of Gamma, the AI-powered presentation tool that’s one of the hottest and most interesting AI startups in the world right now. They’re valued at over $2 billion, and they hit $100 million ARR in just over two years, with a lean team of just around 50 people. Unlike many fast-growing AI startups, Gamma has been profitable for most of its history, has not raised significant funding, and they built a massive business in a category most investors dismissed. In fact, one investor told Grant his idea was “the dumbest idea he had ever heard.”
We discuss:
How Gamma found product-market fit by rethinking their onboarding [09:52]
Their process for building a “word-of-mouth machine” [13:16]
How they leveraged more than 1,000 micro-influencers instead of big names [41:19]
Why focusing on the “first 30 seconds” transformed their business [17:17]
Their approach to pricing that led to profitability within months [01:29:06]
How Grant thinks about building a durable “GPT wrapper” business [01:19:21]
Also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.
Justworks—The all-in-one HR solution for managing your small business with confidence
Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life
• X: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantslee
• How AI is transforming presentations: Gamma’s story: https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/technology/artificial-intelligence/gammas-startup-journey-the-future-of-presentations-with-ai
• Gamma: https://gamma.app
• Product Hunt: https://www.producthunt.com
• Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-on-building-product-sense
• Grant’s launch post on X: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee/status/1640701282959912961
• Paul Graham’s response on X: https://x.com/paulg/status/1642051326929510400
• Smith & Diction: https://smith-diction.com
• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai
• 1stCollab: https://www.1stcollab.com
• AKG Media: https://akgmedia.co.uk
• Dunbar’s number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
• Grant’s post on X about influencer marketing: https://x.com/thisisgrantlee/status/1966874658680303880
• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com
• Notion: https://www.notion.com
• Voicepanel: https://www.voicepanel.com
• UserTesting: https://www.usertesting.com
• Cursor: https://cursor.com
• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell
• Lovable: https://lovable.dev/
• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika
• Lindy: https://www.lindy.ai
• Inside ChatGPT: The fastest-growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley
• Dependency: https://xkcd.com/2347
• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach
• Figma’s CEO: Why AI makes design, craft, and quality the new moat for startups | Dylan Field: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat
• The woman behind Canva shares how she built a $42B company from nothing | Melanie Perkins: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-making-of-canva
• Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao
• Gamma’s drone show: https://gamma.app/events/drone-show
• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer
• The ultimate guide to willingness-to-pay: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-willingness
• The Lazarus Project on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81668082
• The frog of the well proverb: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chinese_Stories/The_frog_of_the_well
• Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: Why That Is and What You Can Do About It: https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Sh-ebook/dp/B01GZ1TJBI
• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike: https://www.amazon.com/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-Nike/dp/1501135910
• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
2025-11-11 21:45:43
👋 Hey there, I’m Lenny. Each week, I tackle reader questions about building product, driving growth, and accelerating your career. For more: Lennybot | Lenny’s Podcast | How I AI | Lenny’s Reads | AI/PM courses | Public speaking course
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I’m always on the lookout for alpha to share with you on what the most successful companies are doing differently—so you can do it as well. This post is the epitome of that. Emily Kramer has identified a pattern in how top AI (and non-AI) startups are able to break through the noise and grow unlike at any other time in history. Once you see it, you immediately rethink your growth strategy. I did! After reading the first draft of this post, I got a whole new level of understanding for why my product pass has been such a success (fun fact: it doubled my growth, and is the most win-win-win idea I’ve ever concocted).
Below, Emily shares how you can implement this strategy yourself, along with dozens of real-world examples of how top companies are executing it. For more insights from Emily, check out her excellent newsletter, and find her on LinkedIn and X.
P.S. You can listen to this post in convenient podcast form: Spotify / Apple / YouTube.
You’ve built something great. Maybe even shipped it faster than you thought possible, thanks to AI. But here’s the catch: everyone else has that same speed advantage.
So you turn to distribution. But here’s the second catch: the B2B channels you’ve long relied on for growth are increasingly becoming less effective, for that same reason.
Inbound: Search traffic is declining due to LLMs, and social is flooded with derivative content.
Outbound: With AI SDRs and easier access to contact data, everyone’s inboxes are overflowing.
Product virality: We’re overwhelmed with new products (thanks, AI!), so with endless choice, virality is much harder to achieve.
Events: While people crave authentic connection in the AI and hybrid-work era, the explosion of trade shows, micro-conferences, and webinars of mixed quality has led to event fatigue.
Lifecycle emails: With inboxes saturated with cold outbound, even lifecycle emails focused on driving engagement and retention get tuned out.
So in this new competitive, AI-driven landscape, how do you get your great product noticed?
Tom Orbach, the director of growth marketing at Wiz, said it best: “Why start at zero when you can start at 10,000?”
You’re likely familiar with the individual tactics within an ecosystem strategy: influencer and creator relationships, channel partnerships, developer relations, communities, product integrations, and customer marketing. But the growth unlock doesn’t come from any one of these activities on their own.
Instead, a flywheel emerges when you properly implement this overarching strategy: your ecosystem partners create and distribute content, you amplify and repurpose their efforts, together you drive greater reach and credibility, new customers and partners come on board, and the cycle strengthens with each turn. Now your ecosystem is a powerful extension of your GTM team.
When you look at the fastest-growing companies today, you probably see AI-first companies known for their lean teams and great products. But I see something else: companies that wouldn’t have achieved these growth trajectories without their ecosystems.
The Postgres development platform and database became the default backend for vibe-coding products like Lovable. As these companies grew, so did Supabase. In addition to these “integration” partners, Supabase’s open source community shared docs, tutorials, and videos, further driving growth and building credibility.
→ Supabase went from 1 million to over 4.5 million developers in under a year, which would not have been possible without two sets of ecosystem players: the open source community and the awareness from integration partners.
“Community and virality aren’t ‘intangible.’ Supabase shows how to turn organic pull (GitHub stars, YC adoption, vibe-coding buzz) from developers into structured funnels, lifecycle paths, and monetization.” —Aaron Cort, operating partner at Craft Ventures, investors in Supabase
Clay grows through close partnerships with “GTM engineer” power users—consultants, agencies, and in-house operators. These Clay creators make videos and tutorials that drive adoption and awareness.
→ Without this creator ecosystem showing what’s possible, Clay’s flexibility could have been a liability instead of an advantage.
Lovable helps builders quickly create apps that are naturally shareable—a classic driver of viral growth (think “Built with Webflow” or “Made in Typeform” badges). But Lovable accelerates this virality through community-driven initiatives like hackathons and their Discord, which just surpassed 100,000 members.
→ Lovable’s product is excellent, but there are many other vibe-coding products out there. Lovable’s investment in building a brand alongside their creators has catapulted them above the rest.
“For years, the marketing playbook was predictable, but not anymore. All the attention has shifted to the creator economy. The goal is no longer to produce everything in-house but to empower creators to generate content about you, and then repurpose it across paid and organic.” —Elena Verna, head of growth at Lovable
Gamma built an ecosystem of micro-influencers across TikTok, Instagram, X, and LinkedIn to show off presentations built with Gamma’s AI design tool. They paid them not just to post but offered a bonus for virality. They also extensively catalogued successful hooks and formats to make this scale.
→ Gamma attributes over half of their growth to influencers, and founder Grant Lee breaks down the details in this post.
Vercel’s huge developer community builds on Next.js (which Vercel leads work on), and those projects naturally scale into Vercel enterprise deals.
→ Without the Next.js ecosystem and community contributions, Vercel likely never would have had the credibility or reach to move upmarket.
ElevenLabs turned users into contributors through its Voice Library. Voice actors upload voices and earn money when they’re used, which attracts more creators. These voices also power viral content like “AI presidents” on YouTube and TikTok. Viral hits drive press coverage, too.
→ ElevenLabs hit $100 million ARR with just 50 employees. Without its paid creator ecosystem (over $1 million to creators in 2025), the product itself would have fewer voices and it wouldn’t have spread as quickly.
You’ll see ecosystem flywheels behind nearly every fast-growing AI startup, from Baseten’s strategic partnerships with cloud providers, to Midjourney embedding its product in Discord from day one, to Anthropic building MCP to make it easier for developers to connect tools and data to Claude and other LLMs.
I initially became obsessed with the power of ecosystems firsthand at Carta in 2018, where lawyers as channel partners drove massive growth, and at Astro in 2017, where building for the Slack platform led to Slack acquiring Astro, in its largest acquisition at the time. Back then, these plays felt like outliers. But today, this strategy is essential. An ecosystem is fast becoming the rule for growth, not an exception.
Here’s why:
The best reason to invest in an ecosystem is that, when done well, it makes every channel better by serving as both a distribution path and a source of content.
Ecosystem partners fuel inbound, add value and credibility to your outbound messages, accelerate product virality, make events more enticing, and ground lifecycle marketing in real use cases.
Example: HubSpot partnered with a bunch of marketing influencers to promote their new framework, “Loop Marketing,” when they announced it at their Inbound conference this year. This combination spurred lots of discussion, driving a bunch of organic Linkedin posts too. All of these efforts came together to make it feel like the Loop Marketing framework was everywhere that week (at least if you were a B2B marketer).
AI has made it easy to pump out content, making it harder than ever for people to know who and what to trust. This means they are turning to voices they already value and respect (like Substack writers!). Ecosystem players like these already know how to speak to your audience. Your brand simply can’t build that trust overnight—if ever—without these partners.
You see this especially on LinkedIn, where individual people (employees, customers, or partners) perform much better than brands—eight times better from employees vs. brands, according to LinkedIn.
Example: Vanta may be best known for its clever play-on-words billboards, but you’ve likely also seen them sponsoring business Substacks (like Lenny’s) or podcasts. Since their product centers on trust, it’s smart to partner with high-trust creators who their (compliance-minded) audience already knows. It’s clear that a significant share of their paid spend now goes not just to billboards but to creators too. Fun fact: Vanta is one of Lenny’s top 3 podcast sponsors.
AI was supposed to make GTM teams more efficient—and in some ways it has. But shrinking GTM teams are scrambling to get efficiency through AI while also finding creative, compelling ways to differentiate.
Your ecosystem is an accelerant for a lean team, like bringing on a contracted team of expert marketers. Working with partners, customers, and communities may not be as turnkey as paid search, for instance, but with the right workflows (and a boost from AI), the ROI can be extremely high.
Example: Navattic built a team of marketing advisors, which makes the team seem much larger than it is. They set up long-term or advisory arrangements with micro-influencers who get early access to products, give product feedback, and also regularly post on LinkedIn as part of the relationship.
Ecosystems aren’t limited to products you integrate with or creators with big LinkedIn followings. And if one ecosystem partner starts showing diminishing returns, you aren’t out of luck. There’s a broad network of individuals and companies that can reach your audience.
If a person or company, no matter the size or reach, has spent time building up the audience you want, you can figure out how to work with them.
Example: If you have a niche audience, you can often find organizations and trade associations to partner with. Clio works with state bar associations to reach lawyers, and Upstart has long been a preferred partner with the NAFCU, a regional credit union trade association.
Growth strategies are never one-size-fits-all, but most B2B startups today can grow faster with a well-designed ecosystem strategy. With audience attention fragmented and harder than ever to earn—and startups hitting revenue milestones faster—you can’t afford not to leverage the people, companies, and platforms that already have your audience’s trust.
Because there are so many types of partners and ways to collaborate, there’s opportunity here for nearly every company. The question isn’t if you should build an ecosystem strategy, it’s who your best partners are, how to activate them specifically, and how to reshape your team and process to prioritize that work.
2025-11-11 18:01:45
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AI gave everyone speed - but that same speed flooded every distribution channel. Search traffic’s down, inboxes are overrun, and even virality is harder when everyone’s shipping quickly. In this episode, Emily Kramer reveals the strategy behind today’s breakout companies: ecosystem. Instead of going direct, win through partners, creators, communities, and integrations that already have your audience’s trust. If you’re still relying on the old playbook in an AI-saturated world, this episode will help you rewire your strategy.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why classic inbound, outbound, virality, events, and lifecycle are weakening in the AI era
What an ecosystem flywheel is and how it compounds credibility and distribution
The six most common ecosystem motions
How fast-growing teams such as Supabase, Clay, Lovable, and more are using an ecosystem strategy
How to …
2025-11-11 00:03:20
Hey friends 👋,
Here’s a weekly recap of new podcast episodes across Lenny’s Podcast Network:
Every Monday, host Claire Vo shares a 30- to 45-minute episode with a new guest demoing a practical, impactful way they’ve learned to use AI in their work or life. No pontificating—just specific and actionable advice.
Brought to you by:
Brex—The intelligent finance platform built for founders
Zapier—The most connected AI orchestration platform
Guest: Matt Britton, founder and CEO at Suzy
Biggest takeaways:
“There’s always a way” should be your AI mantra. When Gong didn’t provide an easy way to access call transcripts, Matt could have given up. Instead, he hacked together a solution using Browse AI to scrape the data. “Just because the tool doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done,” he explains.
Customer calls are your best source of marketing keywords. By extracting the exact language customers use to describe their needs, Matt’s system automatically identifies keywords they should be bidding on in Google—ensuring that their marketing speaks the same language as their customers.
The future belongs to proactive problem-solvers. Matt is reshaping his team to favor “far more individual contributors, far more people who want to put their hands on keyboard.” As he explains, “I don’t need more people to tell what to do. I need people who are going to come up with new ideas and solutions and be proactive.”
▶️ Listen now on YouTube | Spotify | Apple Podcasts
Brought to you by: ChatPRD—An AI copilot for PMs and their teams
Biggest takeaways:
Cursor’s Composer One model is blazingly fast for simple projects. While you might need more-powerful models for complex applications, Claire demonstrates how Composer One can scaffold a basic Next.js application in seconds. For beginners, this speed means less waiting and more learning through rapid iteration.
The “editor view” vs. “agent view” choice matters for beginners. Cursor 2.0 offers two interfaces, and Claire recommends the agent view for beginners because it focuses on what you’re building rather than file structures. This approach shields newcomers from overwhelming technical details until they’re ready.
JavaScript is “easy to see,” while Python is “easy to read.” When choosing your first programming language for AI coding, Claire suggests JavaScript (particularly with Next.js) because you can immediately see your results in a browser, while Python might be more readable but requires more steps to visualize.
When AI tools give you too much, start over. Claire’s experience with V0 generating an overly complex application demonstrates an important lesson: If an AI tool is making things more complicated than you want, it’s often faster to start over with a different approach than to try fixing what you have.
▶️ Listen now on YouTube | Spotify | Apple Podcasts
More shows coming soon. . . 👀
If you’re enjoying these episodes, reply and let me know what you’d love to learn more about: AI workflows, hiring, growth, product strategy, anything.
Catch you next week,
Lenny
P.S. Want every new episode delivered the moment it drops? Hit “Follow” on your favorite podcast app.
2025-11-10 20:03:42
Brex—The intelligent finance platform built for founders
Zapier—The most connected AI orchestration platform
Matt Britton is the founder and CEO of Suzy, a consumer insights platform that has raised over $100 million in venture capital and works with top brands like Coca-Cola, Google, Procter & Gamble, and Nike. Matt is also the bestselling author of YouthNation, a blueprint for understanding the seismic shifts shaping our future economy, and Generation AI, which explores how Gen Alpha and artificial intelligence will transform business, culture, and society. In this episode, Matt demonstrates how he built a comprehensive AI workflow using Zapier that transforms customer call transcripts into a wealth of actionable intelligence. Despite not being a coder, Matt created a system that automatically generates call summaries, sentiment analysis, coaching feedback, follow-up emails, SEO-optimized blog posts, and more—all from a single customer conversation.
What you’ll learn:
How to build a trigger-based workflow that automatically scrapes and processes customer call transcripts from platforms like Gong
A systematic approach to quantifying customer sentiment on a 1-10 scale that has proven highly predictive of churn and upsell opportunities
How to create an automated coaching system that provides personalized feedback to sales reps after every customer interaction
A workflow for extracting keywords from customer conversations to inform Google ad campaigns without manual intervention
Techniques for automatically generating privacy-compliant blog content from customer calls that drives organic traffic and paid search performance
Why CEOs and executives need to build AI skills firsthand rather than delegating implementation to engineering teams
How to use Google Sheets as structured databases for AI lookups and enrichment within automated workflows
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mattbbritton
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattbrittonnyc/
Company: https://www.suzy.com/
ChatPRD: https://www.chatprd.ai/
Website: https://clairevo.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/
(00:00) Introduction to Matt Britton
(02:36) Why Zapier became the backbone of Matt’s AI automations
(04:17) Identifying your core business problem
(09:02) How Matt built the initial trigger automation with Browse AI
(13:42) The value of CEOs getting hands-on with building
(14:00) Scraping and processing call transcripts
(20:14) Using LLMs to generate call summaries and sentiment scores
(23:25) Creating a Slack channel for real-time call insights
(26:17) Extracting keywords for Google Ads campaigns
(28:35) Building an AI coach for sales and customer success teams
(29:48) Creating a follow-up email writer for post-call communication
(35:25) Generating redacted blog content from customer conversations
(37:51) How this approach changes team building and hiring priorities
(40:19) Matt’s prompting techniques and final thoughts
• Zapier: https://zapier.com/
• Gong: https://www.gong.io/
• Browse AI: https://www.browse.ai/
• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/
• Qualtrics: https://www.qualtrics.com/
• SurveyMonkey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/
• Slack: https://slack.com/
• Google Sheets: https://www.google.com/sheets/about/
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].
2025-11-09 21:31:40
Jen Abel is GM of Enterprise at State Affairs and co-founded Jellyfish, a consultancy that helps founders learn zero-to-one enterprise sales. She’s one of the smartest people I’ve ever met on learning enterprise sales, and in this follow-up to our first chat two years ago (covering the zero to $1 million ARR founder-led sales phase), we focus on the skills founders need to learn to go from $1M to $10M ARR.
We discuss:
Why the “mid-market” doesn’t exist [04:38]
Why tier-one logos like Stripe and Tesla counterintuitively make the best early customers [08:08]
The dangers of pricing your product at $10K-$20K [15:35]
Why you need to vision-cast instead of problem-solve to win enterprise deals [10:50]
Why services are the fastest way to get your foot in the door with enterprises [36:55]
How to find and work with design partners [25:09]
When to hire your first salesperson and what profile to look for [50:24]
Also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs
Lovable—Build apps by simply chatting with AI
Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/earlystagesales
• Website: https://www.jjellyfish.com
• The ultimate guide to founder-led sales | Jen Abel (co-founder of JJELLYFISH): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/master-founder-led-sales-jen-abel
• Mario meme: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/missing-meme-led-me-woman-johann-van-tonder-im6df
• Kathy Sierra: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra
• Cursor: https://cursor.com
• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell
• Justin Lawson on X: https://x.com/jjustin_lawson
• Stripe: https://stripe.com
• Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein
• He saved OpenAI, invented the “Like” button, and built Google Maps: Bret Taylor on the future of careers, coding, agents, and more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor
• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai
• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next
• Linear: https://linear.app
• Linear’s secret to building beloved B2B products | Nan Yu (Head of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linears-secret-to-building-beloved-b2b-products-nan-yu
• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com
• Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com
• How Palantir built the ultimate founder factory | Nabeel S. Qureshi (founder, writer, ex-Palantir): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-palantir-nabeel-qureshi
• McKinsey & Company: https://www.mckinsey.com
• Deloitte: https://www.deloitte.com
• Accenture: https://www.accenture.com
• Building a world-class sales org | Jason Lemkin (SaaStr): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-world-class-sales-org
• Peter Dedene on X: https://x.com/peterdedene
• Hang Huang on X: https://x.com/HH_HangHuang
• Hugo Alves on X: https://x.com/Ugo_alves
• A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting
• Clay: https://www.clay.com
• Apollo: https://www.apollo.io
• Jason Lemkin on X: https://x.com/jasonlk
• Gavin Baker on X: https://x.com/GavinSBaker
• Jason Cohen on X: https://x.com/asmartbear
• Baywatch on Prime Video: https://www.primevideo.com/detail/Baywatch/0NU9YS8WWRNQO1NZD5DOQ3I8W6
• Playground: https://www.tryplayground.com
• ClassDojo: https://www.classdojo.com
• Jason Lemkin’s post about Replit: https://x.com/jasonlk/status/1946069562723897802
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.